SE Wales Hang Gliding & Paragliding Forums

Hi all, I am a member, but am disgusted at the restriction to members only to one of the foundation sites for free flying. I first flew here in the early 80s and it has always been considered as a National site. I gather it was originally negotiated by Avon! (My main club). It is also a PUBLIC PLACE!!! Members only status is the last resort. It is wrong for clubs to restrict their sites in such a manner. If the reason is for the charge on the field for parking, then get some system in place to charge people!!

This is a ridiculous and very restrictive policy. What if all clubs restricted their sites, and then you wanted to do visits around the country??

Ken Wilkinson

ken, this is one of our most expensive sites alongside nanty moel, and we are struggling to keep afloat with dwindling memberships. this is one of the discussions we had at our committee meeting, obviously there are many problems with having honesty boxes on the welsh countryside, and we were limited in finding other solutions. you are more than welcome to come to our agm to assist with decisions to make sites more accessible, as well as assisting us with the costs we have to outlay to have access to sites.

the dicision to make pandy members only is a suprise .i personally think it a great shame .i wasnt aware there is a problem with overcrowding parking or with the farmer .restricting this site to members only will create a problem -who is going to police the hill ?is who ever going to ask non members to leave site?and what next ?pandy is a stunning place to fly a privelage any one should be able to enjoy.! i am sure that once visted by non member he /she would soon become one .

I understand the comments, but this is a thing to be avoided anywhere. I know sometimes it is necessary due to a farmer's express wishes, but this is a financial issue.
Imagine going on a tour of N England sites, and everywhere you go they want a full years membership for one or two days flying!!

I have proposed something to the Avon committee as we are some of the main users of Pandy. It has to be said the bulk of our visitors are SE Wales members like wot I am. Perhaps if other clubs (TV, and Wessex for example) could be approached, then a solution could be found that will keep the site open.

Ken

in different parts of the country there are different land rules, the joys of having three countries in one land mass. in the lakes they have free access rules so all sites are open.
it is actually less expensive to join a club than to pay parking fees several times a year. plus by not parking in the car parking that has been negotiated by the club, it can jeopardise the site greatly, especially by breaking rules of parking in laybys and bus turning spots, where the locals can get upset about this behaviour
our club does have open sites, merthyr, blorenge, pontlottyn, rhigos, ebba vale to name a few. so you can still fly a reasonable range of directions without becoming a member. and these sites cost our club a minimal amount.
the fact is there are many reasons why the decision was made to make pandy members only and it will be further discussed at the agm. the agm is a more appropriate forum to discuss the issues relating to the se wales sites.
and sometimes rules have to change to protect sites for the long term future use.

Hi All,
I've raised the point for discussion at the club's AGM next month. There is also a very lively forum debate on this point at http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=156554 which is worth reading. The land is actually private land owned by the Duke of Beauforts estate and Steve Millson negotiated the current agreement that gives the club access to the site.

Personally I think that we should trial a non-member parking fee and see how it works out. Not sure how best to administer it though - £10 for a month's Pandy car park sticker? Dated and with the vehicle reg on it?

Jason

Im sorry all but I have to put the boot in cos this is giving me a right laugh. The amount of crap levied at me when i started speedflying was entertaining. But now the boot is on the other foot there are paragliders who are using the same arguments I used back then to now secure their use of Pandy if it is made members only. Hypocrisy springs to mind and perhaps karma. It really is a “do as i say not as i do” world.
Sorry this isnt going to help but i had to say it. Im out for the remainder of this debate.

Hope it can get sorted for all as we all have the same passions in common!

I think it has been an oversight on the clubs part for several years not to have made it members only. It is only a matter of time, with the number of visitors coming who often don't know or ignore the rules, that the graziers report back to the landowner that there are problems and we are out of there.
As far as charging a parking fee, and this is just my opinion, It is not fair to put more on the clubs officers to collect and administer some system. We are volunteers! unless of course you want to put your hand up. I really don't see members only as a problem, most members will spend thousands on kit, holidays and 30-40 return in fuel just to get to a site.. 22 a year for some of the best sites in the UK, as i am sure you know, its a bargain!

This is a very emotive issue, anyone who goes onto the paragliding forum and reads all the tantrum inspired posts will realise that there are a lot of opinionated people who have added their piece without really contributing anything. I wonder how many of them turn up on site, fly and then go home(possibly leaving their empty plastic bottles behind), without thinking of the time that people spend ensuring that the site is open and flyable? People who turn up and mend gates, or cut down weeds? It doesn't really matter if it is a flying issue or a financial one, the fact is that if the use of this site is lost it is possible that Hay Bluff will follow it, and once lost it will probably be impossible to regain either or both. That will be a terrible loss to the flying community as a whole, including the European visitors. And it is no good saying we have a historic right to use these sites, we haven't. Just because we have done something regularly for 30 odd years doesn't mean we can automatically expect to do it for the next 30. Or even for the next week. Instead of condemning the club which is trying to safeguard the use of Pandy why not try to understand the situation. Maybe even support the club by joining -- and before any one says that is unreasonable -- I, and quite a few of my mates have joined the SWWSC just so we can fly Rhosilli with a clear conscience. Non members are supposed to pay the National Trust £2.00 per person per day, but very few people actually do. They all say "Ohh I didn't know that." Or "Oh our club has a reciprocal arrangement". It isn't the club that demands the money but the N.T. And don't say "But we own the N.T. we shouldn't have to pay!", we own the roads but we still got to pay road tax on our cars.
Perhaps some of the surrounding clubs could pay the farmers parking fee and secure parking for their members, or perhaps the BHPA could make a contribution, I don't really know, but I do know this, like toothache this issue won't go away. Our club AGM is at the end of the month. It is at the Angel Hotel in Abergavenny. Why not come along and put your views forward. You could even join the club!!

first off im blown away by some peoples agressive atitude toward this issue ,problems are never solved by geting angry and certainly not by calling the police <as i seen writen on a paragliding forum>lighten up fella,s !SE Wales is is my home ground and has been since i were born .i am previlaged to live so near to some of the best flying there is !.this must be shared with anyone who wishes to do so .>this must be shared with anyone who wishes to do so !<.along with that privalage comes a price in this case a parking fee.i as a member of se wales think anyone useing the parking must pay member or non member if you go to rhosilli member or not you pay to park.a simple system of collecting cash example all members carry 5 parking tickets and the cash passed to a club official .if that is not suitable park in the pub car park im sure the pub owner will not mind so long you buy a meal n a pint afterwards.does anyone know how many people do fly at pandy each year ?those who do fly must pay for the privelage Its not ROCKET SIENCE!..